neurotic Iraqi wife

32 Comments:

 Anonymous said...

I enjoy reading your perspectives. I am an American woman, wife, mother, veteran and nursing student. I share many of your views regarding differences in people. It is such a shame that thousands of years and thousands of wars are still being held over the world's head. I am hopeful that some day peace will prevail, but I am realistic that conflict will never end. There is so much anger and distrust and misinformation. I have to take comfort in the fact that I am teaching my children that while they are indeed unique, they are not to judge.

I look forward to reading more of your posts. I am always curious about other cultures/countries and different points of view.

I wish you the best with your new family.

August 3, 2006 at 12:41 AM  

 Anonymous said...

NICE POST :)

Olmert the terrorist is probably the most hated leader in the world at the moment. Its in his hands if he wants to change that not anyone else's.

They can keep the whole fight for freedom etc. We fell for that when IRAQ WAS LIBERATED AND I MEAN LIBERATEED of Saddam Hussein by the US and their allies, but does that mean as a result we have to agree with every US policy?

We realise that the Jewish media and lobby are so strong and that Bush can not go against it, because the Democrats like Dean etc would use the whole security of Isreal as an excuse the next election, but spare a thought for people who don't have any money to move and are stuck in the south of Lebanon.

Do not blame it all on Hizbollah.

To me Olmert = Nasrallah except the fact that the idealogies that drive them to become who they are are different but in the end they both have their hands draped in blood.

August 3, 2006 at 1:40 AM  

 Original_Jeff said...

My ancestors were from Poland and I am deeply offended! I shall never write to you again. Just kidding. You are not going to be so lucky. :-)

Your definition of terrorism is a bit too loose. Just like in the case of killing, the circumstances are quite significant. If you are driving a car and accidentally kill someone on the street, then that is much less serious crime than if you spend days making a plan, gathering the weapons, lying in wait, and then axe murder someone. The result is the same--a dead innocent person--but the punishment is vastly different. This right and proper and I think ever modern legal system makes these types of distinctions.

The violent deaths--even large numbers of deaths--of civilians in war time is not itself an act of terrorism. The intent has to be there.

Just this evening, Israel admitted having made a mistake in Qanna and is sorry for the deaths of the civilians. It also said that procedures and guidelines would be updated. I have not heard Osama Bin Laden apologize yet, have you?

August 3, 2006 at 5:03 AM  

 Anonymous said...

I think you are doing a great job of telling it like it is.Here in the USA hate rears its ugly head in many ways also.Religion,race, politics and what ever else.Peace?don't know the answer and if it will ever come except for each person seeking it in themselves.
Someone said,Got to love yourself before you can love another.Peace and love to you and yours.

August 3, 2006 at 5:08 AM  

 madtom said...

"They hit a shelter filled with handicapped children with the excuse that Hizbollah militias fired missiles from behind the house...Did any Hizbollah followers get killed in that attack???"

And how pray tell would you know how many Hizbollah fighters got killed there that night? Do you think Hizbollah would tell you, do you think that they would let news film dead hizbollah and a ruined rocket launcher?

Notice that the news and the red cross got there in a few hours, but there was no way to get the children out before the fight....Sure I believe it.

August 3, 2006 at 5:45 AM  

 Anonymous said...

Don't be fooled...

CNN's Anderson Cooper Exposes Hezbollah's Media Manipulations:
http://newsbusters.org/node/6574

Interesting...I haven't heard any journalists in Israel declaring media manipulation.

I think the passengers of the 9/11 planes and the workers in the World Trade Center would have appreciated a leaflet or 2. How about the 214 US marines killed by Hezbollah. I'm sure they would have appreciated a leaflet or 2. But Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda wouldn't provide leaflets because mass carnage was the goal, not the unfortunate side effect. The "plan" of terrorism is to kill innocents. The "plan" of Israel is to kill terrorists.

August 3, 2006 at 7:02 AM  

 Anonymous said...

i really enjoy reading ur post,
and i think the main issue of the middle east crisis is the occupation of palestine .the israeli colony leaders made a big mistake when they forgot that israel itself is a mistake .but the idea of creating a nation of European Jews in an area of Arab Muslims (and some Christians) has produced a century of warfare and terrorism of the sort we are seeing now. Israel fights Hezbollah in the north and Hamas in the south, but its most formidable enemy is history itself.

August 3, 2006 at 11:25 AM  

 Rhianna said...

I don't condem every muslim for the acts of psycotics but when you continue to support the government that paid for their 'religious' education and that continues to say they're 'freedom fighters' as they blow up more muslims, jews and christians my sympathy is bupkis.

My symathy ended for those bloodbaths years ago, long before 9-11, but it just harded it. When everyone goes "well you deserved it" which was the general theme in the ME I don't give a rip if Israel walks all over you. Or dancing in the streets handing out candy, praising allah and then claming it never happened and that the Israelis and US militaries did it.

When your country won't even police your own border, or take any steps to stop terrorists blowing up women and children on busses, in homes, at their bar and bat mitzvahs you get no sympathy.

When you know terrorists are bombing civillians and then keep your children in place where you know there's going to be attacks, I give you no sympathy.

I'm sorry those children died, but their blood is on hizbullah's hands and the hands of their 'parents' that would let such terrorists hide behind them and use them as human shields.

One can not expect Israel to continue to be violated every day and do nothing. hizbulla is a terrorist group that targets women and children, that hides behind women and children, that glories in killing women and children. The UN "human rights" idiot said as much - AFTER he left Lebannon (but he took Isreal to task IN Isreal) - what does that tell you about the way hizbullah operates? What does that tell you about hizbullah's supporters and the lack of value they place on their children's lives??

There's pleanty of blood to go around for everyone to try to wash themselves of. As Isreal pulled out of Lebannon, and was then attacked by terrorists who killed their citizens and kidnapped more, their killers and kidnappers get no sympathy. Nor do their supporters who try to claim 'victim' status for allowing their children to be used for political and news effects of "deaths". If those parents gave a rat's tukis about their children they'd have evacuated them. Instead they kept them there, knowing they were most likely to die. That shows those 'parents' are nothing but terrorists in disquise.

While I don't hold you personally accountable you're claiming Isreal intentionally targeted civillians, when Isreal has gone out of it's way to follow the GC and notify civillians to flee, they've gone out of their way to attack known hizbulla locations, they've gone out of their way to avoid attacking Lebaneese soldiers.

You complain that no arab government gives a damn, so why exactly should Isreal or the US? They aren't citizens of our nations. Their own 'parents' and governments use them as nothing more than cannon fodder, don't expect the world to weep when they die, which is the exact plan of those in power and those who's entire purpose is to defend and protet those children.

I also wonder if they weren't deemed "genetically inferior". It wouldn't be the first time the arab world killed off those they deem not good enough and it won't be the last.

August 3, 2006 at 11:51 AM  

 المجد للمقاومة said...

you are amazing writer , i really enjoy reading your posts ; i liked alot ur WOMAN'S PLCE IS WITH HER HUSBAND & DIRTY GAME
i think the wetern media which dominated by jews plays a bad role in the israeli aggressions against Arabs to turn the problem from occupied arab land issue to a terrorism issue . we ( the youth of Arab world) don't need their sympathy or help .we are desperate of their justice ; most americans are brain-washed by their media controled by jews .i'm sympathized with them cuz someday they will wake up to discover that they were illusioned when the youth in our arab world get rid of their dictators and bad regimes supported by US . and we take all our rights by strength and bring the israeli and americans who commit mass murder and war crimes to justice . i'm not a dreaming boy you will see that day soon.we are working for it .
thank u
http://israelicrimes.blogspot.com/

August 3, 2006 at 12:59 PM  

 Anonymous said...

What a great post -- one of the best I've read in weeks.

During the height of the Bosnian war in the early 1990s, someone described the situation as "98 per cent of people don't want to fight; they just want to live their lives. It only takes 2 per cent to cause mayhem and turn neighbor against neighbor."

August 3, 2006 at 2:11 PM  

 Anonymous said...

People who attack Isreal war crimes can be man enough to admit that the Islamic organisations are of the same terrorist nature.

People who attack Hizbollah need to ask themselves why they blindly support Isreal.

The children of Qana, the UN workers, the ambulnace that was hit right on the cross on top of it (a mistake of coincidence)....

Let me ask you this.... why is it that Palestinians who had to flee Palestine are not allowed to return, where as hundreds of Jews flow in to Isreal from around the world?

I mean you see people leaving the US, Canada and Russia to move to a country they never in their lives seen, where as the people whose grandparents are buried on what is Isreali soil are not allowed the same privliges.

Look at the Kurds, they face the harshest possible treatment from most of the countries they live in, and apart from the activities of the PKK you seem trying to get along with their neighbours for the sake of peace and prosperity.

Isreal sadly has lost almost all the Arabs and Muslims who did have sympathy for them.

Trying to cover up the massacre at al Qana is the same sort of propoganda Joseph Goebbels used in his genocide of the Jews during the Holacust.

Even when this whole operation ends, do any of you really think attacks on Isreal will be lessened?

August 3, 2006 at 3:20 PM  

 Howmuchdoiloveuisrael said...

I really like your blog. god bless ya .if u wanna see the massacres in lebanon come and take a look on my blog

www.howmuchdoiloveuisrael.blogspot.com

August 3, 2006 at 4:02 PM  

 Anonymous said...

quote ...". Had the scene been reversed and the shelter was in Israel, I probably would have reacted the same way but maybe with less ferver..."
that tells a bit of a tale ... now doesn't it?

August 3, 2006 at 5:54 PM  

 Jaylin said...

Thank you for handling disparaging remarks so gracefully. Name calling should not be a part of civilized discussions.

I am an American woman, mother,and professional and would hope that others would not make assumptions about me based on my nationality. I think a common mispercention is that if you are American than you must agree with the policies of the US government, and that could not be further from the truth. Look at the results of the last election- it was a NARROW margin that gave Bush the win. On the same account, it is extremely misfortunate that a lot of people believe that if you are from Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran or Lebanon, that you must agree and endorse the politics of your government. Or even worse that you would condone and support the terrorism that exists within your countries. What people don't realize is that the persons that suffer most from terrorism is not the average American- it is the average citizen in Iraq or Lebanon or Afghanistan who loses thier family and friends on a day to day basis because of the violence. It diminishes the hope of the people in those countries that they can seek work to feed their family, go to a park to play with their children, or create a life without fear and violence.

Really, if you step back and look at the big picture-it is the "us versus them" complex that is perpetuated (to perfection by the U.S. government in their "you are either with us or against us" doctrine) that divides incorrectly. Instead of a true god versus evil game, it becomes a convaluted game of everyone who is from so and so is our enemy, or anyone that doesn't look like me is my enemy, or anyone who believes in a different God must be my enemy. It is incredibly sickening to me. With this constant smokescreen, no wonder we all become paranoid and unable and unwilling to see people for who they are.

The children that dies in Lebanon were MY children, the men standing in line for jobs that were killed by suicide bombers were MY husband, father, son, friend.

The bottom line is that the sooner we realize that WE ARE ALL CONNECTED- the sooner that those who believe in peace, justice, and hope will be able to combat the forces that are driven by the need for power and money. At that point, and no sooner, the violence will end.

August 3, 2006 at 5:55 PM  

 Anonymous said...

Good words. And good points made. Thanks for this post.

...but telling a joke at the end that uses an ethnic slur as humor is a disservice to the open-minded non-judgmental message of your post. It is, in fact, an ironic contradiction. Think about it.

August 3, 2006 at 7:15 PM  

 madtom said...

j"Polish Remover"

For the record I thought the joke was funny, I'm still giggling about it.

August 3, 2006 at 8:03 PM  

 Jaylin said...

I found the "nagger" part offensive- event hought he real word was not said it was implied and that is offensive. Something to think about.

August 3, 2006 at 8:11 PM  

 Anonymous said...

Liberated? MY ASS!!!

99% of the US forces, on the ground in iraq, dont understand Arabic, and there is a huge majority of them who don't respect these people, who don't give a damn about their culture, of course, I forgot, how many americans speak of Islam and Muslims as a culture of hate, as if they could even read the Koran, arrogant bastids.

There are some soldiers, with the humble intent of helping those people in Irak, THUMB UP, *get my fat thumb rip off by chuck nice sniping skillz* , some soldiers who just want to shoot something, some want to go home to their wives(hey buddy, DONT FORGET THE INLAWS,)childrens and dogs, some who are there for the "Patriotism" :O We are going to save america from the bad bad irakis armed with the nuke in their basement, O, they dont have one, well, Bomb their asses till they do have a basement.

So many children/young adults lost their lives, because of american arrogance and stupidity. I could have called it collateral damage, but what about, that 15 year old girl, her 5 year girl, and her family, and now, their 2 orphaned sons, I think people know what am talking about, already feeling sick thinking of it.

My point is, what irakis need now, are, Peace loving soldiers, now the type who are there to kill in the name of America. The only thing, I see, is american oppression, more by the soldiers, than the so called insurgent/militias.

Peace- (not feeeeeling well to speak seriously, but I hope my points werent too much near the edge of bullcrap *Falls asleep*)

ps. SEND YOUR SOLDIERS BACK TO KINDERGARDEN BUSH. :P

August 4, 2006 at 12:42 AM  

 Anonymous said...

Neurotica,

Good post. I think the internet allows people to talk politics with less respect for each other than they would if discussing things face to face, hence the name calling and some of the absurd comments you see in response to your posts. My whole point in posts here and on other blogs was expressed in your statement saying that if the Qana shelter had been in Israel, you would have reacted with less fervor. I know you are not a racist or a anti-semite. But your ingrained (if somewhat sub-concious) view of Israel is such that if 50 Israeli kids died in an attack by Hezbollah you admit you would react less passionately than if 50 Lebanese kids died in an attack by Israel. To me, that is the same kind of ingrained subconcious felling that provoked Americans to almost immediately suspect muslims in the Oklahoma City bombing. It is part of the whole problem that despite having jewish friends and not being anti-semitic, to you the death of 50 Israeli children is less angering than the death of 50 Lebanese children. The same could be said for Americans when it comes to Iraqis or Afghans...while most of us are not anti-muslim and have muslim friends, the deaths of 3000 Americans who died in 9/11 are more angering than thousands of Iraqis who have died in terrorist bombings since 2003. There is no justification for either set of differences in opinion. In both cases, the people dying were innocent civilians. In both cases, the difference of opinion is not due to racism or some ingrained bias. It is simply a matter of perception. To you, because of an ingrained belief about Israel and its policies, you draw an imaginary line that makes the civilians there somehow "less innocent" than the ones in Lebanon. At the same time, Americans for whatever reason, see Iraqis or Afghans killed by terrorists as somehow "less innocent" than the people killed in the WTC in NY, perhaps because of the support given to terrorists in the past by governments in Iraq and Afghanistan. That perception gap is what i think the world needs to get past in order to work for real peace in the middle east. EVERYBODY needs to recognize that a civilian is a civilian (including the terror groups and the people who support them in word or deed) regardless of their nationality, religion, or ethnicity. As long as people in arab countried excuse Hamas suicide bombings or Hezbollah rockets launched into Israeli cities with some rationalization of why Israel deserves it; and as long as people in western nations rationalize that civilians in places like Lebanon, Afghanistan, or Iraq are less important to protect because some of them may harbor terrorists, there will be no end to the conflicts and wars in the ME.

On a totally separate note, I think perhaps you may have misunderstood the anger of the US contractor who you befriended and then parted ways with over Pres. Bush. I know you have stated that you can be outspoken and blunt in what you say and how you say it, but perhaps you misunderstood his intention and he misunderstood your statements. Recognize this...most kids in America (especially those from older generations like him) were told by their mothers to "never talk about sex or politics in polite company". Now of course most of us don't do what our parents say, so there is plenty of discussion of both among friends. However, even among friends, generally when we find out that we don't see eye to eye politically, we hold back somewhat on our emotions and discuss any political topic pretty delicately to avoid creating anger between us if we disagree on some topic about which we have strong feelings. It may be that the older gentleman was trying to make small talk about the state of the union speech, and was just wondering if you planned to listen to it? I mean as several of the others have commented, we learn very little about people we disagree with if we don't listen sometimes to opinions that differ from our own. I will admit also however, that I didn't watch the speech either.

What I am trying to get at I guess is that perhaps by voicing such a strong opinion about Bush when maybe he really was not wanting to get into a big political discussion with you, you put him on the defensive. Another common saying in America (and maybe around the world) is that "it is the thought that counts" (typically used as a semi apology in situations where somebody tried to do something nice or give a nice gift, but missed the mark). I think the way most of us in America feel (even those like myself who supported the war and still do) is that we recognize that mistakes were made in how the initial war was carried out that cannot be undone and no apology can correct. But we feel like the effort put into Iraq justifies at least some small expression of gratitude because our intent was to do the right thing. We didn't intend to incite a civil war, we didn't intend to create an environment rife with looting after the initial invasion. But those things happened, and I don't know anybody who is happy or satisfied with the result. While many Americans have advocated immediately pulling our troops out of Iraq due to the ongoing violence, the president and alot of the rest of us have stayed true to Iraq and demanded that our troops stay there until the Iraqi government and its forces can take control despite the cost to our own troops. I know that seems like simply doing the right thing after making the initial mistakes, but if you haven't been watching the American news or press, you probably have no idea of what enormous pressure the president and his military commanders have been under here in America to pull out and leave "the ungrateful Iraqis to kill each other" as I have heard more than once from people on both sides of the political specturm here in the US.

After making the early mistakes, it would have been easy politically for Bush to pull out and leave Iraq as a mess without any troops to try to keep any semblence of peace. But he made the hard choice that has killed his popularity, and perhaps your friend felt he deserved at least a little credit for having stayed with Iraq instead of abandoning it as Clinton did to Somalia. I think in the end, whether you meant it this way or not, perhaps he felt that you were simply one of those "ungrateful Iraqis" who hates America and just had a job there to make money off of America, while refusing to recognize the price being paid by Bush and others to stick by Iraq in the face of enormous pressure to pull out. I know the "price" I speak about is small compared to the many lives lost and ruined, but recognize that our politicians are not all that different than your own, and seeing them destroy their own political reputation and possibly the future of their own party to "do the right thing" even when it is incredibly unpopular" is actually quite extraordinary. In this case, I don't think it is too much to ask that maybe Iraqis try to see that even if lots of mistakes were made by the US in Iraq, that "the thought" of removing Saddam and trying to provide for democracy and freedom (even if implemented in a flawed and messy fashion) should "count" for something.

I know you aren't the "ungrateful Iraqi", because I have read your blog from the beginning and remember how excited you were for the first election and again when you found out you would be going to Baghdad. But if you are as much a "straight shooter" as you seem with how you expressed yourself to him, and if he was brought up believing in the old saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything", he probably took what you said far too personally and misunderstood the complexity of your feelinga about the war, saddam, freedom, Americans, and Bush. Somebody from his generation who held your opinions about Bush would probably would have simply answered "no...I am not really interested in hearing the speech" and then changed the subject if they knew he was a big supporter of Bush. Answering how you did was probably something he wasn't prepared for that was more related to the differences in cultures rather than him deciding he suddenly didn't like you because you didn't like Bush.

Either way, I am really glad you are still blogging and that you and Hubby had a heart to heart and worked out some of the troubles between you. Even if I don't always agree with everything you say, it is fascinating to read your feelings and opinions about the situation in the middle east as well as your relationship with your husband, and I have learned much about the ME and my own relationship with my wife from reading your blog. Thanks for putting the effort into this and thanks for making your life and thoughts public for all of us to read.

August 4, 2006 at 1:12 AM  

 Anonymous said...

NIW,

It is great to see and read that you have chosen to continue blogging, and blessed are all who make time to read your posts.

In the current war between Israel and its enemies Hezbollah and Hamas, this mess erupted after Israel was provoked by rockets, killings, and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers within Israel’s borders.

Israel positions its troops between its women and children and the enemy (to protect women and children). Hezbollah and Hamas position women and children between Israeli troops and themselves (to use women and children to protect themselves).

Israel uses precision munitions to minimize civilian casualties. Hezbollah and Hamas use rockets loaded with ball bearings and shrapnel deliberately aimed at civilian populations to maximize injuries, maiming, and death.

Israel mourns, apologizes, and investigates the loss of lives of innocent women and children in their attempt to minimize such deaths in the future. Hezbollah and Hamas pass out treats and celebrate the killing of Jews.

Israel’s military personnel wear uniforms to standout as soldiers. Hezbollah and Hamas operatives wear civilian clothes to purposefully blend in among the population.

Israeli military operations are carried out to protect the lives of innocent people, and destroy or weaken the enemy. Hezbollah’s and Hamas’s goal is to kill, maim, and injure as many civilians as possible, evidenced by their firing rockets into Israeli cities, towns, and villages purposefully fired from within or near homes and buildings containing civilians, knowing and expecting an Israeli military response.

Israel wants peace. Hezbollah and Hamas seek the destruction of Israel.

If Hezbollah and Hamas put down their weapons and munitions, there would be no fighting. If Israel puts down its weapons and munitions, Israel would cease to exist.

Hezbollah and Hamas are proxies of Syria and Iran. Syria and Iran supply Hezbollah and Hamas with money, men, missiles, and war materials. Syria and Iran desire to destroy Israel. Iran is stalling the United Nations Security Council for time, and has a hidden nuclear weapons development program underway.

What’s wrong with this picture?? And please explain again why Israel should be condemned as terrorist for what happened at Qana??? It seems from my perspective that Hezbollah is the more guilty party for having irresponsibly and deliberately placed children in harms way by firing rockets from or nearby, the building that collapsed; knowing that their rocket fire would trigger an Israeli military response and subsequent world condemnation of Israel if innocent children became victims. While it may be a massacre of innocent civilians, to say that Israel targeted innocent civilians, and is therefore a terrorist is unjust and inappropriate. So it goes . . . The Politics of War: “A Dirty Game . . . ”

August 4, 2006 at 3:01 AM  

 madtom said...

stayed with Iraq instead of abandoning it as Clinton did to Somalia.

Foul: Clinton did not make the decision to put the troops into Somalia, he did not make the choice to not have an aircraft carrier for air support near by, all that was dump on his lap. When it all went to hell, he made a choice. We could argue if it was the right choice or not, but lets start first with the facts as they were on the ground.

Ok back to your excellent (if right wing) post.

August 4, 2006 at 4:52 AM  

 Anonymous said...

Madtom, as a muslim, living far away from the M.E, in a peaceful little island. All that chaos, wanted to put in my mind that Israel is evil. A lot of muslims, like myself, who live in peace, everywhere in the world are confronted with that chaos, of choosing between good and evil, like if we lived in a lotr story.

But still ;), I watched too much trigun in my childhood.

THIS LAND IS MADE OF LOVE AND PEACE. -Vash

I guess, we can still extinguish the fire over there, if both side, understood, that it aint jews, muslims, shias, sunnis dying, but Human beings.

August 4, 2006 at 8:42 AM  

 Anonymous said...

Madtom, as a muslim, living far away from the M.E, in a peaceful little island. All that chaos, wanted to put in my mind that Israel is evil. A lot of muslims, like myself, who live in peace, everywhere in the world are confronted with that chaos, of choosing between good and evil, like if we lived in a lotr story.

But still ;), I watched too much trigun in my childhood.

THIS LAND IS MADE OF LOVE AND PEACE. -Vash

I guess, we can still extinguish the fire over there, if both side, understood, that it aint jews, muslims, shias, sunnis dying, but Human beings.

August 4, 2006 at 8:43 AM  

 Anonymous said...

It is impossible to face the truth with a closed mind. It's all about paradigm...

911 was an inside job planned and carried out to get American citizens to spend their lives and their funds for the new conquest : taking over the Middle East's OIL. Read it for yourself instead of asking the government why!

www.911truth.org/

August 4, 2006 at 9:21 AM  

 Anonymous said...

Madtom,

I don't want to make this comments section another diversion from NIW's post, so I will try to explain what I meant very briefly. You are correct, Clinton did not put the troops in Somalia. The troops were undersupported and given rules of engagement that did not allow them to carry out their mission without putting themselves at trmendous risk. That set of ROEs and the limited scope of the force were a direct result of the UN not wanting it to appear that Somalia was being "occupied". So the mission that ended as "Blackhawk Down" went off in unarmored trucks and hummers instead of with tanks and APCs for aesthetic reasons instead of valid military reasons. The resulting publicity of seeing soldier's bodies dragged through the streets led to exactly the same pressure to withdraw troops that Bush felt after soldiers started dying from suicide bombs in Iraq. Zarqawi and Zawahiri even cited Somalia in several of their messages to their groups as an example where the US cut and run when confronted with messy situations and media coverage of tragic deaths of soldiers. Clinton WAS the guy who pulled the troops out without finishing the mission in Somalia instead of making the changes necessary to successfully complete the mission there. He set the tone for Al Qaeda, Zarqawi, and others by showing that loss of popular support at home would result in an American retreat. Bush so far has resisted that urge to the detriment of his political reputation and the ability of his party to lead the country. Whether he is right or wrong to have done that depends on your view of the issue I guess, but there is no question that Iraq would be tremendously worse off if Americans had pulled out midway through 2004 instead of staying the course. Hate him if you want for the mistakes he and his advisors made early in the war, but you at least have to give him credit for not cutting and running before the mission is complete as we did in Somalia.

August 4, 2006 at 6:46 PM  

 Anonymous said...

NIW

I really enjoy your posts. Your views are refreshing and very honest. I am not sure if I had your kind of courage to write such posts on my blog, if I had one.
BTW
I did laugh reading about the polish guy. And I am Polish.
So true, the same words/concepts have different meaning for different people.

August 4, 2006 at 9:25 PM  

 neurotic_wife said...

I cant really say much about the comments I got...Some people might see Hezbollah as terrorists...others see Israel as terrorists...I personally say this again...I condemn whats happening in Lebanon at the moment...whoever's fault it is...I dont support neither party...To give me the excuse that Israel call people up and warn them that their houses will be bombed in one hour is just BS to me...Its just another means to satisfy public opinion...I also believe that the media is playing a major role in the differences of opinion around the globe...The arabic media shows the corpses, the charred bodies, the scattered body parts...the dead children...Any person with a heart would go mad seeing these images on the screen...While in the west theres no way for these images to be shown...hence the aloof attitude in some cases...Imagine a 911 everyday in Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon...How was your reaction when these planes hit??? You saw the images of those innocent people throwing themselves out the window just to get away from it all...For me that was the worst part...The choice these ppl had to make...So dont be upset cuz theres uproar in the midlle east because of whats happening right now...Just remember 911..I know I shouldnt compare it cuz it wasnt instigated...Im just trying to make a point regarding the media and the images we see night and day...

As for the joke...I didnt mean any harm by it...I really thought it was funny, still makes me laugh...Maybe it wasnt the right post to put it in, but it was the first thing I received that really made me laugh and thought to share it with everyone...just to lighten up the mood...thats all...

August 4, 2006 at 10:54 PM  

 madtom said...

Bill,

Your right this is not the form to debate this issue. You can paint it as you have here, and dump blame on Clinton and the UN for what was in fact a failure of President Bush the father, and then go on to repeat the standard party line, cut and run thing about OBL and the rest based on their public statement.

You really think that the mission in Somalia could have been rescued at that point? I think that's wishful thinking, and your not remembering the political facts back home at the time. Your also sort of giving Reagan and Bush the father a pass for doing the exact same thing. If anything Clinton was just doing what everyone else had done during better political climate. Those guys did not have the same witch hunt on their tail as Clinton did, maybe he figure that by doing the same as his predecessors that it was a politically expedient decision

Even though I do listen to the statement of the terrorist leaders, I also like to try and communicate with the regular folks and see what they think. Try and get a feel for what people on the street think of events. One of the great things about blogs is that you can eavesdrop on people without them even knowing your there. Tricky I know. I can tell you that one of the things that embolden the enemy was not simply Somalia, but the fact that they thought that the US was week. Not necessarily week because we "would cut and run", but week because we were in fact fighting a civil war.

Don't laugh, many people in the ME thought that we were about to start shooting at each other at any minuet, one of the events that they would usually pull out as evidence was of course the impeachment of Clinton, that and what they saw as a fight between State and DoD. They would read the news and then interpret what they were reading through their own experience, and could come to no other conclusion but that the US was in fact fighting a civil war. That led them to believe that the time had come to attack, and attack they did.

This is just a short rendition of history and the way it was perceived outside the US and is in no way meant to conclusive or definitive, for all the sticklers out there

August 4, 2006 at 11:32 PM  

 Anonymous said...

Don't worry about the joke Neurotica...I thought it was funny. People who enjoy being overly sensitive can find something to be offended by in almost anything. Humor is humor...and I think it was clear you meant no harm or slight with it.

I don't think it is that the media won't show bodies here that results in an aloof opinion in the west. We see plenty of shots of destruction and bodies being carried away. What I believe causes our opinions to be different is a combination of two things.

First is that we have a short attention span. Since the violence doesn't directly involve us, we don't spend a lot of time paying attention to it and each bombing, rocket launch, retaliatory strike, etc. simply blends into the seemingly never ending pattern of violence that is the picture of Israel and its neighbors presented by our media. Without some personal connection or any specific involvement in the historical conflict, the story of XX people dead in a bombing or XX people killed by armed gunmen just fades into a pattern of gray amid our own local news stories of somebody killed in carjackings or a serial killer on the loose in Arizona, etc. Our news sensationalizes every story to the point that the truly sensational ones deserving of closer attention simply blend into the whole pattern and escape serious attention.

The second thing that causes us to see the conflict in a different light is that we are given a different picture of Lebanon. For me, I was a teenager in the 1980s and remember the nightly news constantly filled with stories of Hezbollah guerillas kidnapping peace negotiators, Druse militiamen shelling Hezbollah strongholds, Sunnis fighting Shiites, etc. Then there was the Israeli occupation, the marine barracks bombing, Syrian occupation, etc. We now see stories of Lebanese villages celebrating suicide bombers in Israel, flying banners in support of Hezbollah, etc. To us, the image given to us of Lebanon is not a beautiful country with a peaceful population that has been torn apart by outside influences. The image we receive is that of a country constantly either at war within itself or supporting of a war with its neighbor. So while you in the arab world may see Lebanon as a beautiful country victimized by countries like Syria, our perception is that of "just another arab country filled with people who hate somebody and want to kill them". I know that isn't true for the most part, but it is the perception sold to us by our media.

How about another joke about "differences" to make you smile...

A little boy was walking down a dirt road after church one Sunday afternoon when he came to a crossroads where he met a little girl coming from the other direction.

"Hello," said the little boy.

"Hi," replied the little girl.

"Where are you going?" he asked.

"I've been to church this morning and I'm on my way home," she answered.

"Me too," he replied. "I'm also on my way home from church." "Which church do you go to?" he asked.

"I go to the Baptist church back down the road," she replied. "What
about you?"

"I go to the Catholic church back at the top of the hill," he replied.

They discover that they are both going the same way so they decided
that they'd walk together. They came to a low spot in the road where spring rains had partially
flooded the road so there was no way that they could get across to the other side without getting wet.

"If I get my new Sunday dress wet my Mom's going to skin me alive," she said.

"My Mom'll tan my hide too if I get my new Sunday suit wet," he replied.

"I tell you what I think I'll do," said the little girl. "I'm gonna pull off all my clothes and hold them over my head and wade across."

"That's a good idea," replied the little boy. "I'm going to do the same thing with my suit."

So they both undressed and waded across to the other side without getting their clothes wet. They were standing there naked in the sun waiting to drip dry before putting their clothes back on when the little boy looked at the girl and finally remarked, "You know, I never did realize before just how much difference there really is between a Baptist and a Catholic."

Smile NIW...nobody expects you to figure out the solutions for the world. We are just happy you are a part of it and are willing to post your thoughts for us to read.

August 4, 2006 at 11:53 PM  

 Anonymous said...

Tom,

You are right, we never should have been in Somalia...that was Bush 41's fault. We did cut and run...that was Clinton's fault. We were perceived as weak...for MANY reasons...that was the fault of many people on both sides. We did cut and run several times in our past (under presidents from both parties)...and were wrong for doing so in most of them...which is why I said it was quite an extraordinary event in American politics to see a politician who has not yet bowed to the pressure and done so again.

August 5, 2006 at 12:35 AM  

 Anonymous said...

Olmert a terrorist? That is just funny. I don't even particularly like Jews, and that is just hilarious. Hizbollah kills two and kidnaps two Israeli soldiers, lobs 1000's of missiles indiscriminately into Israel and because Olmert retaliates, he's a terrorist? Olmert's army is firing their weapons at Hizbollah members who are hiding in neighborhoods without uniforms.

I think the reason we westerners lump you muslims into one category is because you don't speak out about the idiots who are ruining your religion.

August 6, 2006 at 6:06 AM  

 Anonymous said...

I knew that joke would offend alot of people, but hello it is only a joke. I thought it was so funny myself. It was a relief to have a little laugh after reading some hardcore sh*t! I don't care what anybody else says about you Iraqi wife. It does not change who you are and what you stand for. We all have told jokes that could offend someone else and we have all heard jokes that could have offended us. YOU must be very weak minded to allow someone to get to you like that. We have so many other issues to worry about instead of some joke!

August 6, 2006 at 9:55 PM  

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I am an Iraqi woman who absolutely adores her HUBBY, but HUBBY is too busy rebuilding the country.

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